Fuck tolerance.

[jedusor]

I hate it when "tolerance" is used as a buzzword for the mission of gay rights. Tolerance implies the suppression of negative feelings; what I think the LGBTQetc. community should be aiming for is eradication of those negative feelings. In the short term, we need to swing the balance the other way with positive feelings and awareness movements--gay pride, that sort of thing--but in the long term, I hope that homosexuality will become something that people don't even think about, something we don't have to celebrate and draw attention to.

I had a girlfriend once, and we didn't try to hide our relationship in public. We got a few negative comments and a few positive ones, but I was happiest when people seemed like they didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. That's not tolerance; that's acceptance, and that's what I personally would like to see.

Comments

[kaberett.livejournal.com]

Every time I see an obviously gay couple, I want to go up to them and applaud them and thank them, I really do, but I'm aware that misses the point completely, so I don't.

This is partly because I'm scared of being obviously queer in public - as opposed to simply saying "I'm bi", which is scary enough in itself in some situations - and partly because, as someone who "looks" heterosexual, I feel guilty for not "doing my bit" in making things normal, and partly for other complicated bits and pieces.

Um. This makes no sense and is a tangent. I think. Interesting post, thank you. *hug*

[gerald_duck]

When I was growing up, the only homosexuals with any kind of visibility were outrageously effeminate poofs in hot pink. That wasn't me. When I realised I quite liked the idea of cuddling a nice man, I was terrified this meant I was going to end up like that.

On the other hand, two or three years later I kissed a man goodbye on the concourse of a major London station. Openly. With (we later realised) three police officers watching. Not that they necessarily paid us any attention. Nothing went wrong. Twenty years on, still I've had very little trouble. Just once, some drunken boors at the next table in a Tandoori restaurant overheard a bit of conversation and started using intimidating language, but the waiter ejected them when he found we were on the phone to the police about them.

While lizzip may be scared of being obviously queer in public, my experience is that it's not that big a deal. Not in the UK; not these days.

You should visit some time. (-8

[kaberett.livejournal.com]

To state the bleedin' obvious: you're not a teenager.

Schools are a very artificial environment.

[jedusor.livejournal.com]

You're going to college this fall, though. I suspect the environment there will be a bit different than that of a high school (secondary school?). College students tend to be a little more self-aware and empathetic than younger teenagers (not to mention less inclined to spend their time torturing others, especially at an institution as demanding as Cambridge).

You're saying I shouldn't visit? ;)

[elainetyger.livejournal.com]

I'm all for tolerance if it means "If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all."

Of course, ideally, acceptance would be nice, but people minding their own goddamn fucking business in the world would be a step up.

[cometcrazie113.livejournal.com]

i agree with what you're saying, but i think a lot of it comes down to semantics, too.

[kaberett.livejournal.com]

I was at a sixth form college; I'm going to university. (Secondary schools sometimes have sixth form colleges attached to them. Mine was just a sixth form.)

Cambridge does, however, also get scary evangelical Christian Unions that occasionally hold candle-lit vigils outside gay students' rooms.

There are, however, fantastic stories of the college dean engaging such people in theological debate in the college bar and then calmly pointing out that the society was banned from the bar so they should kindly GTFO... :)

[jedusor.livejournal.com]

Huh... so "college" is actually an educational stage that happens before university for you guys? Here, universities are made up of colleges (I think you need seven colleges to be a university) but we use the terms pretty much interchangeably.

[kaberett.livejournal.com]

Ah. Ish.

"College" is a complicated term here.

Some secondary schools get referred to as "community colleges" because they also provide evening classes, etc; I'm not sure why standalone sixth forms get the name.

There are, um, three collegiate universities in the UK, I think - Oxbridge and Durham. At all of them the colleges are where people eat and sleep, and at Oxbridge some teaching is carried out via them; the actual teaching is done by the various Departments and Faculties. The Departments and colleges and other bits and pieces taken together make up these universities.

Most (all?) other universities in the UK are just made up of the various departments and adminy bits, and will usually have some halls of residence that function slightly differently to colleges.

(come viiiiiiiiiiisiiiiiiit)

[seekingferret.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. I'm a religious Jew and I don't seek acceptance from Christians, just tolerance- an agreement that even though they think I'm going to hell, we can live together as neighbors without harassment. I think it's unfair to demand more.