Circumcision

[jedusor]

I can't believe this is even debatable. I can't believe that in a society we consider civilized, I have to actually present a structured argument against cutting off pieces of babies when they're born.

Comments

[canadianpuzzler.livejournal.com]

Well, then, I'm a little at a loss as to what your definition of a civilized society is defined as, and how modern society does (or does not) qualify as the same. To some degree, I'd be inclined to argue that in a lot of ways, civilized society is about as civilized as common sense and common courtesy are common. :-)

As for your point about mutilation, look around: mutilation *in general* has social acceptance. Some of the mutilation is benign (piercings in odd places) and some of it is not (cutting). I'm sure some of it is even genital mutilation mistakenly believed to be beneficial, but I do my best to avoid reading the e-mail spam that advertises it.

[jedusor.livejournal.com]

Self-mutilation is different, as I said above to rebbyribs. I have no problem with people who choose to modify their own bodies.

I think a truly civilized society would grant people basic rights, like bodily safety, or at least majority agreement that bodily safety is a worthy goal. (Caz pointed out that some people would use the same argument against abortion. I think the distinction is where you draw the "this is now a person" line, which is a hot topic in the abortion debate, but I don't think anyone would argue that an infant old enough to be circumcised has not attained personhood.)

[canadianpuzzler.livejournal.com]

I think that there is agreement that bodily safety is a basic right. (And certainly, I have yet to meet or hear of an emotionally stable parent that did not want to protect their child's bodily safety.) I think what there is is an absence of agreement over whether a properly performed male infant circumcision affects bodily safety adversely. I admit to being uninformed about the medical particulars of modern circumcision - or any, really - but I can see how the idea of "bodily safety" can be interpreted differently enough to fail to settle the question, so I can understand why there might be a failure to agree about this.

And so it comes back to consent and responsibility. And as long as parents do not think it is harmful, and have a reason to have the procedure done (regardless of what that reason is and whether or not it is valid), parents will continue to have it done. Short of trying to educate people into your position, I'm not entirely sure what you can do about it.

[jedusor.livejournal.com]

I'm not trying to do anything about it. I'm just saying it depresses me.

[kaberett.livejournal.com]

Parents aren't always right about what is or is not harmful.