Circumcision

[jedusor]

I can't believe this is even debatable. I can't believe that in a society we consider civilized, I have to actually present a structured argument against cutting off pieces of babies when they're born.

Comments

[projectyl.livejournal.com]

Yes. This. This is what I was trying and failing to say yesterday, and what I think Tahnan was saying when you deflected his comments.

Holding an opinion which differs strongly from that of many people you know is fine. Publicly expressing that opinion, even to an audience you know to include those people, is fine, although you have to expect and accept debate when you do so.

Publicly expressing that opinion in a way charged with the subtext "anyone who does not agree with me is morally inferior to me" is very, very not fine, and that's what you done here whether you realize it or not.

Saying "I can't believe this is even debatable" is the same as saying "This should not be debatable" is the same as saying "Nobody should hold any opinion other than mine". That's why words like "disrespect" and "intolerance" have made their way into the discussion. If you'd left that angle out of the OP, perhaps replacing it with something like "I find it sad that...", this comment thread would still have exploded, but it'd be maybe half as long and a quarter as angry, and you wouldn't have come across as (forgive me, but I have to call it like I see it) a zealot.

You're irreverent and opinionated, and I love you dearly for it. But please, please, please be careful that when you air your opinions, even somewhere as out-of-the-way as an online journal, you do it without belittling the opinions of others.

[projectyl.livejournal.com]

(Erm, that was of course directed at Julia, not Hathor. It's probably pretty clear, but I ought to specify anyway.)

[hahathor.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I got that.

Frankly, if I had seen this post in a community, I would have figured it to be a troll. I can't see why somebody would - out of the blue - announce to everyone they know that something that a sizable proportion of them believe to be a sacred rite is so horrifically barbaric that it shouldn't even be considered.

I mean, I know people who think polyamory is wrong - but I don't think any of them would post something along the lines of "I can't believe this is even debatable. I can't believe that in a society we consider civilized, I have to actually present a structured argument against having sex with multiple people as opposed to making the commitment to a viable relationship."


For the record, I would never circumsize any child I had - and I've been poly (though I currently am not). But I am disgusted by close-mindedness, and disappointed in Julia's lack of empathy - and common sense.

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

This is indeed more or less what I was feeling, though you've expressed it a lot more clearly than I did, irritated as I was.

And again, to reply (in a way) to the clarification in the next post: I'm not angry with Jedusor about the subject, I'm angry—well, irritated and saddened—about the way the views were expressed. (Both in the original post, and in much of the followup.) Not being sorry about the "you're morally inferior" tone is what keeps me irritated and saddened.

(Also, for the record, Hathor is also irreverent and opinionated, and I think most of us love her for it, if perhaps less dearly than you love Jedusor for it.)

[hahathor.livejournal.com]

You love me, tahnan? You love me? Because I'm loud and opinionated and irreverent?

*swoon*